The Scuttlebutt: Understanding Military Culture

Navy F-14s and the Tactical Air Reconnaissance Pod System (TARPS)

The Tactical Air Reconnaissance Pods System (TARPS) was a significant advancement in reconnaissance technology, particularly for the U.S. Navy during the late 20th century. TARPS, developed and deployed during the Gulf War (1990-1991), was a crucial system designed to enhance real-time intelligence-gathering capabilities for naval aviation, especially for carrier-based aircraft.

The system was integrated into F-14 Tomcat fighter jets, allowing them to conduct high-resolution imagery and reconnaissance missions. TARPS utilized a sophisticated suite of sensors, including high-definition cameras and infrared systems, to capture imagery and data over enemy territory. This made it a valuable asset for targeting and surveillance, providing crucial intelligence during the conflict.

One of the individuals behind the deployment of TARPS was Chris Bacon, a Navy veteran who played a role in the system’s operational success. In August 1998, at 17 years old, Chris Bacon joined the Navy and started basic training in Orlando, Florida. After graduation, he went to Photo School in Pensacola, Florida. Upon graduating, he received orders to report to the VF-103, F-14 Fighter Squadron. VF-103 was part of Carrier Air Wing 17, based in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

Shortly after, he deployed for workups in preparation for a six-month deployment. As scheduled, the airwing deployed on August 7 aboard the USS Saratoga and made a rapid crossing of the Mediterranean as Iraq invaded Kuwait. Ten days after deploying, the US began Operation Desert Shield. On the evening of January 28, the USS Saratoga received orders to initiate Desert Storm. After seven months and 21 days of deployment, with 11,700 arrested landings, 12,700 sorties flown, and 36,382 miles traveled, the USS Saratoga returned to its home port on March 28 with fewer sailors.
The success of TARPS marked a significant milestone in the evolution of naval reconnaissance capabilities, enabling Navy pilots to gather detailed intelligence in real time while remaining out of the enemy’s direct line of fire.

During the Gulf War, the U.S. Navy utilized TARPS extensively for various missions, including target identification, battle damage assessment, and strategic reconnaissance over Iraq and Kuwait. The system’s ability to gather high-quality imagery and intelligence played a vital role in guiding airstrikes and shaping military strategy. The data collected by TARPS provided commanders with timely and actionable intelligence, which greatly enhanced the effectiveness of allied forces during the conflict.

TARPS became a benchmark for future reconnaissance technologies, demonstrating the importance of integrating advanced sensors into military aircraft to improve operational effectiveness. It also highlighted the growing importance of real-time intelligence in modern warfare, a trend that would continue to evolve in subsequent conflicts and military technologies.

In addition to its use in the Gulf War, TARPS continued to serve as a vital tool in the U.S. Navy’s arsenal for many years after the conflict. It contributed to numerous intelligence-gathering operations and was a crucial component of naval reconnaissance efforts in the post-Cold War era. TARPS’ legacy paved the way for future advancements in aerial reconnaissance systems and underscored the importance of technological innovation in military operations.
Overall, the development and deployment of TARPS represented a major leap forward in naval aviation technology. Thanks to the efforts of individuals like Chris Bacon and the broader U.S. Navy team, TARPS played a critical role in the Gulf War, providing essential reconnaissance data that helped shape the outcome of the conflict. Its impact on military reconnaissance continues to be felt today as modern systems build on the foundation laid by TARPS.

January 1, 1994, marked Chris’s final six-month deployment, which coincided perfectly with Operation Deny Flight and Operation Provide Promise, which enforced the UN’s no-fly zone and provided air support over Bosnia-Herzegovina. Upon his return, the USS Saratoga docked in Jacksonville, Florida, and was decommissioned. Her last day at sea was his last day in the Navy.

We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

The Story of Vietnam POW Doug Hegdahl

Vietnam veteran and author Marc Leepson joins us to talk about his new book, The Unlikely War Hero: A Vietnam War POW’s Story of Courage and Resilience in the Hanoi Hilton.

Doug Hegdahl, a young U.S. Navy sailor, became one of the most unlikely heroes during the Vietnam War. Born in South Dakota in 1946, Hegdahl enlisted in the Navy in 1966. His life took a dramatic turn on April 6, 1967, when he was swept overboard from the USS Canberra in the Gulf of Tonkin. Picked up by a North Vietnamese fishing boat, Hegdahl was handed over to enemy forces and imprisoned at the infamous Hoa Lo Prison, known as the “Hanoi Hilton.”

Initially, Hegdahl’s captors viewed him as a low-value prisoner due to his lack of rank or intelligence-related responsibilities. Exploiting this perception, Hegdahl adopted a persona of naivety and incompetence. He pretended to be illiterate and acted as though he could barely understand the basic circumstances of his imprisonment. This ruse, combined with his youthful appearance and seemingly simple demeanor, led his captors to underestimate him.

Hegdahl’s apparent harmlessness earned him a relatively lenient treatment compared to other POWs, many of whom were subjected to severe torture and harsh interrogation. This freedom allowed him to interact with other prisoners, where he quietly began to collect vital information. Hegdahl’s keen memory became his most powerful tool. By covertly communicating with fellow POWs, he memorized the names, capture dates, and personal details of approximately 256 other American prisoners. He developed mnemonic devices and repeated the information constantly, ensuring he would not forget it.

Hegdahl’s captors sought to use him for propaganda purposes. They compelled him to write statements criticizing the U.S. and attempted to feature him in anti-American broadcasts. Hegdahl feigned compliance but deliberately sabotaged these efforts by inserting errors or delivering performances that were so unconvincing they failed to serve their intended purpose. His ability to walk the fine line between appearing cooperative and undermining his captors’ objectives was critical in maintaining his cover.

In 1969, Hegdahl was released as part of a propaganda initiative by the North Vietnamese. Unlike many POWs who resisted early release to avoid being used as political tools, Hegdahl’s decision to leave was strategic. Senior officers among the prisoners encouraged him to accept release so he could bring his valuable information back to the U.S. government. Upon his return, Hegdahl briefed military officials and intelligence agencies, providing a comprehensive list of POWs still held in Vietnam. His meticulous recall of names and details played a key role in later efforts to account for missing personnel.

Hegdahl’s experience as a POW highlighted the importance of unconventional methods in resisting enemy tactics and supporting fellow prisoners. His ability to exploit his captors’ assumptions about him demonstrated the value of adaptability and ingenuity in adverse conditions. While his story was less widely known than those of higher-ranking officers, his contributions to the broader POW effort were profound.

After the war, Hegdahl’s story became a testament to the resilience and resourcefulness of American POWs. His efforts to document the identities and circumstances of his fellow captives provided crucial support to families and military officials seeking closure. In recounting his experiences, Hegdahl often emphasized the importance of collaboration and the shared commitment among POWs to resist their captors and uphold their duty despite extreme adversity.

We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

Donut Dollies in Vietnam

This video features a compelling conversation centered around a documentary in production about the “Donut Dollies” in Vietnam. The filmmaker, Libby, whose mother was a Donut Dolly, discusses her project and its significance in highlighting the often-overlooked contributions of these women during the Vietnam War. Libby’s goal is to bring to light the stories of the 627 women who served as Donut Dollies, part of the American Red Cross’s recreation program in Vietnam. She emphasizes that these women served for a full year, a commitment often minimized or misunderstood, and that they are still not officially recognized as military veterans. This lack of recognition is a driving force behind her documentary.

The conversation opens with Libby explaining her motivation, fueled by her parents’ story – her mother, a Donut Dolly, meeting her father, a helicopter pilot, at Camp Eagle. She notes the consistent surprise and misunderstanding she encounters when mentioning her mother’s service, with people often assuming it was a short-term, superficial role. This misunderstanding underscores the need for a documentary that reveals the true scope and impact of the Donut Dollies’ work in Vietnam.

A significant part of the video focuses on Libby’s quest to gather material for her documentary, titled something like “Donut Dollies: Brave Women in the Vietnam War.” She’s already interviewed seventeen Donut Dollies, but she desperately needs veteran accounts to provide context and perspective. She actively solicits testimonials from Vietnam veterans, emphasizing that even brief recollections of their interactions with the Donut Dollies—positive memories or significant encounters—would greatly enhance the documentary.

Several Vietnam veterans participate in the video call, offering invaluable insights and personal anecdotes. One veteran recounts a poignant story of a Donut Dolly, Jenny Kersch, who died shortly after arriving in Vietnam, highlighting the inherent risks these women faced. Another veteran, Rick Weber, a member of the 101st Airborne Division stationed at Camp Eagle, offers to connect Libby with Susan McLean, another Donut Dolly who served with Libby’s mother. He shares his own positive memories of the Donut Dollies, emphasizing their significant morale-boosting role for enlisted men, a function officers weren’t typically involved in. Other veterans share stories, including one of Donut Dollies asleep in a helicopter after a long day, and another of a Donut Dolly holding a baby at an airport before departing for Vietnam. This underscores the often-unseen human cost of service.

The discussion also tackles the controversial “Donut Dolly” moniker itself. Some find the term demeaning and sexist, while others embrace it as the established term of endearment given by the troops they served. The participants acknowledge the diverse opinions surrounding the name, and that some women preferred “SR American Red Cross girls.” This demonstrates the complexity of the legacy of the Donut Dollies and the varied perspectives on this aspect of their service.

The video concludes with Libby reiterating her urgent need for veterans’ accounts and photos before the March release date, coinciding with Women’s History Month, Red Cross Month, and Vietnam Veterans Day. She makes contact information available, underscoring the importance of sharing these stories to ensure the Donut Dollies’ contributions during the Vietnam War are properly acknowledged and remembered. The conversation reveals not only the Donut Dollies’ significant role in boosting morale in Vietnam but also the lasting impact their service has had on the veterans they supported, as well as their own personal and enduring legacy. The call to action for veterans to share their memories underlines the documentary’s aim: to finally give these brave women in Vietnam the recognition and respect they so richly deserve.

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My 365 Days with the Wolfhounds in Vietnam

John Quintrell served in Vietnam as a member of the 2nd Battalion, 27th Infantry Regiment, known as the “Wolfhounds,” part of the 25th Infantry Division. His service spanned a full year of intense combat in 1968, during the Vietnam War. This was a period of high conflict, marked by the Tet Offensive and fierce engagements against the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) and Viet Cong forces.

In his memoir, My 365 Days with the Wolfhounds, Quintrell provides a detailed, firsthand account of his experiences during that year. The book captures the daily realities of a combat soldier in Vietnam, including the challenges of jungle warfare, camaraderie among troops, moments of fear and resilience, and the psychological toll of war. His narrative combines personal anecdotes, vivid descriptions of firefights, and reflections on the broader impact of the conflict on soldiers and civilians.

The memoir serves as a tribute to his fellow soldiers and offers readers a raw and authentic perspective on the Vietnam War from someone who lived through its harrowing realities.

The podcast series Someone Is Killing the Wolfhounds is a dramatic adaptation My 365 Days With The Wolfhounds. It chronicles the intense, true story of a group of soldiers in Vietnam grappling with the horrors of war and their volatile, dangerous lieutenant, Ritter. The series captures their decision to take extreme measures to survive, combining the tension of Training Day with the gritty realism of Platoon.

The podcast is produced by Voyage Media and features vivid storytelling with professional sound design, original music, and a compelling cast. It spans ten episodes, exploring themes of camaraderie, survival, and moral conflict amidst the chaos of the Vietnam War. Quintrell himself served as an executive producer, ensuring authenticity in the portrayal of events from his memoir​

You can listen to the podcast on platforms like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and iHeartRadio.

We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

Veterans Open Conversation

We are joined by 100-year young WWII 31st Bomb Squad B-24 "Big Buff" Tail Gunner Art McGann.

We also talk with veterans about their DEROS from the military. 

Thank you to our sponsors Tobacco Free Adagio Health and UPMC for Life.

Vietnam Women Veterans

Members of the Vietnam Women Veterans Association, who served in staff and lines positions in Vietnam, share their stories with us.

The vast majority of women in Vietnam, over 10,000, served as nurses. But our guests were some of the 1,000 or so other women in Vietnam who weren’t nurses. Our roster of guests include: Pat Jernigan (Army), Elaine James (Army), Nancy Jurgevich (Army), Audrey Bergstresser (Army), Carmen Adams (Navy), Marti Gallo (Air Force), Jeanne Gourley (Air Force), and Sandra Spatz (Marines). 

Apart from nurses, most women in Vietnam were Army WACs. WACs held a range of positions, including administrative roles, clerical work, intelligence, communications, and other support functions. Their work was crucial to the daily operations of the U.S. military in Vietnam, as they handled essential tasks that kept the military machine running smoothly.

Many WACs served in administrative positions, working as secretaries, typists, and clerks. These women were responsible for managing military records, typing reports, handling correspondence, and performing other office duties. Their work was often behind the scenes, but it was vital to maintaining the efficiency and organization of military operations. Administrative WACs ensured that orders were processed, records were kept accurately, and communication lines remained open, allowing the military to function effectively.

Some WACs were assigned to intelligence and communications roles. In these positions, women worked on gathering, analyzing, and disseminating information critical to military operations. They may have been involved in decoding messages, monitoring enemy communications, or assisting in the planning and coordination of missions. These roles required a high level of skill and attention to detail, as mistakes could have serious consequences for military strategy and the safety of troops.

WACs also worked in a variety of support services, including logistics, supply management, and personnel management. They were responsible for ensuring that soldiers had the supplies they needed, managing equipment and resources, and assisting in the coordination of personnel movements. These roles were essential to maintaining the overall effectiveness of the military force in Vietnam, ensuring that soldiers were well-equipped and supported in the field.

WACs in Vietnam faced a number of challenges, both in their professional roles and in their daily lives. The environment was often hostile, with the constant threat of attacks and the difficult conditions of living in a war zone. Additionally, many of these women faced gender-based discrimination and skepticism from their male counterparts, who were not always accustomed to working alongside women in the military.

Despite these challenges, the women of the WAC proved their value through their competence, dedication, and professionalism. They worked long hours, often under stressful conditions, and played a critical role in supporting the war effort. Their presence in Vietnam also marked an important step in the evolution of women’s roles in the military, as they demonstrated that women could perform effectively in a variety of military functions beyond nursing.

The service of WACs in Vietnam helped pave the way for greater integration of women into the U.S. military. The Vietnam War was one of the first conflicts where women served in a combat zone in significant numbers, and their contributions were an important part of the overall war effort. The experience of WACs in Vietnam demonstrated that women could perform a wide range of military duties, leading to increased opportunities for women in the military in the years following the war.

In 1978, five years after the end of the Vietnam War, the Women’s Army Corps was disbanded, and women were fully integrated into the regular Army. The legacy of the WACs, particularly those who served in Vietnam, lives on as an important chapter in the history of women in the military. Their service helped to challenge traditional gender roles and opened the door for future generations of women to serve in more diverse and challenging roles within the armed forces.

Only after decades of protest and court challenges were these discriminatory policies amended. And it wasn’t until 2015 that the Department of Defense ended all restrictions on women’s service.

We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

Le Ly Hayslip, Child of the Vietnam War

We are privileged to welcome Le Ly Hayslip, whose memoir, When Heaven and Earth Changed Places, was the first to bring the story of a former Viet Cong and Vietnam refugee to American readers. Oliver Stone later made the book into a major motion picture starring Tommy Lee Jones. Ms. Hayslip is the founder of the East Meets West Foundation, now known as Thrive Networks.

Her story is one of unimaginable trauma somehow matched by powerful resilience and a will to thrive.

She was born in poverty in a village near Da Nang as the First Indochina War neared it height. What Americans call the Vietnam War followed, and her village became a frontline for the conflict between the Viet Cong and South Vietnamese government forces, backed by the United States.

As a teenager, Le Ly joined the Viet Cong, primarily as a result of her village’s political leanings and the influence they held over the area. Her role involved basic support tasks such as cooking and transporting supplies, but she also set booby traps and planted mines. She was arrested and tortured by South Vietnamese forces, who suspected her of espionage for the Viet Cong. This experience was traumatizing, and after her release, she faced suspicion from the Viet Cong as well, who questioned her loyalty. The double scrutiny and resulting abuses left her isolated and vulnerable.

To escape the violence and constant threat of harm, Le Ly left her village and found work in Da Nang, where she encountered new struggles. She took on various jobs to survive–many of them illegal–and became involved with American soldiers, which brought a degree of financial stability but exposed her to new risks.

In the early 1970s, Le Ly met Ed Munro, an American civilian contractor who eventually became her husband. Their relationship offered her a way out of Vietnam, and she emigrated to the United States with him. Upon arrival, Le Ly faced a new set of challenges: culture shock, language barriers, and the struggle to adapt to an entirely different way of life. Although safe from the violence of war, she was haunted by the trauma of her past and had to navigate the demands of her new life as a mother and immigrant.

After settling in the United States, Le Ly worked a variety of jobs to support herself and her children. Though she and Munro eventually divorced, Le Ly persevered, working to provide for her family and find stability. Her journey gave her a unique perspective on both Vietnamese and American cultures, and over time, she began to process her experiences by writing her memoir, When Heaven and Earth Changed Places, published in 1989. In it, she shared her personal account of life during the Vietnam War, her family’s struggles, and her journey to America. Her story offered an intimate view of the human cost of war, aiming to bridge understanding between Americans and Vietnamese.

Le Ly’s memoir caught the attention of American film director Oliver Stone, who was moved by her story and its focus on the impact of war on civilians, especially women. Stone had already explored the Vietnam War from an American perspective in Platoon and Born on the Fourth of July. With Heaven and Earth, released in 1993, he completed his Vietnam War trilogy, this time focusing on the Vietnamese experience. The film, adapted from Le Ly’s memoirs When Heaven and Earth Changed Places and Child of War, Woman of Peace, follows her journey from Vietnam to America, highlighting her experiences with violence, survival, and resilience.

Beyond her writing, Le Ly became a humanitarian and advocate for peace and reconciliation. In 1988, she founded the East Meets West Foundation, an organization dedicated to improving relations between Vietnam and the United States and aiding Vietnamese communities in need. The foundation has supported various projects, including medical assistance, educational programs, and infrastructure development, helping Vietnamese people affected by the war rebuild their lives. Through her humanitarian work, Le Ly sought to bridge the gap between her two worlds, fostering understanding and healing across cultures.

Le Ly Hayslip’s life story reflects the complexities of war, survival, and adaptation. Her work as an author, film collaborator, and humanitarian has contributed to greater awareness of the Vietnam War’s impact on civilians and helped foster cross-cultural understanding. Through her story and her efforts, she has become a powerful advocate for peace and a testament to resilience amid the devastation of war.

We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

What's Wrong with "Happy Veterans Day"?

Veterans Day Open Conversation ranges far and wide settling on this first opening question: is it right and proper to wish a veteran a "Happy Veterans Day." The consensus among our veterans is that it isn't, though Todd offers a tepid dissent. 

In the course of the conversation, we also examine the distinctions made between Veterans and "Combat Veterans," "Vietnam Veterans" and "Vietnam Era Veterans," and the propriety of saying "thank you for your service."

Some veterans feel awkward or uncomfortable when people say "Happy Veterans Day" or "Thank you for your service." Younger veterans, in particular, often feel these phrases are too generic. It seems an empty, overused phrase that lacks genuine understanding. Some don’t view their service as extraordinary, but rather as a job they signed up for and completed. For them, the phrase “thank you for your service” can feel impersonal, as if it’s used to satisfy social etiquette rather than express true appreciation. Some even feel it allows civilians to alleviate guilt about not having served themselves, without truly engaging with the challenges veterans face.

For some, the recognition doesn’t align with the pride they take in their service or with the fact that they volunteered for it, unlike those who served in past wars when there was a draft.

Acknowledging a veteran in a way that opens the door to more meaningful interaction can feel more genuine. Instead of only expressing thanks, some veterans suggest engaging more personally: ask about their specific roles, current lives, or goals. For those who wish to show appreciation, actions like volunteering or educating oneself on veterans’ issues are more meaningful ways to honor their sacrifices and uphold the freedoms they served to protect.

The Veterans Breakfast Club isn't  just for veterans. It's for everyone who wants to understand the lives of those who served. Whether you’re a veteran seeking camaraderie, a civilian wanting to learn, or simply someone who appreciates the value of service, the VBC welcomes you . Join us online – become part of their mission to honor stories, build bridges, and ensure that every day is Veterans Day.

We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

Veterans Open Conversation

VBC Scuttlebutt Open Conversation is a friendly, interactive gathering of veterans, friends of veterans, and history nerds where we discuss whatever aspects of military service, past or present, or the veterans community that are on our minds.

Join us to swap stories, good and bad, at home and overseas, old and new.

We’ve asked Lt. Colonel John J. McBrearty–“Colonel Mack”–to join us to talk about his 32 years Army and Marine Corps service, as well as his voluminous writing about American history, military experience, and other topics.

We’ve also invited Vietnam Navy veterans John Denk and Tracy Garner to come on and talk about the Navy side of Linebacker II, the last major US operation of the Vietnam War in December 1972.

Denk was aboard the USS Floyd B Parks (DD-884) during the operation and saw USS Goldsborough (DDG-20) get hit by NVA counter-battery rounds on December 19, 1972. The last three Navy blue water sailors killed in Vietnam were aboard: the Donald Dix, Robert Dow, and Gary Boyce.

Damage aboard on the Goldsborough, December 19, 1972
We’ll also talk about whatever topics or questions you’d like to bring up!

We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

Author Rona Simmons on “No Average Day: The 24 Hours of October 24, 1944”

Historian Rona Simmons joins us to talk about a single day in World War II: October 24, 1944. Those 24 hours were the deadliest for U.S. service members during World War II.

This day, however, is not widely known in the same way as events like Pearl Harbor or D-Day. It was an “average” day in the vast scale of the war, yet for the 2,600 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who died, and their families, it was anything but average.

In her book No Average Day: The 24 Hours of October 24, 1944, historian Rona Simmons meticulously chronicles the tragic events of that day, highlighting the personal stories behind the statistics. The title captures her main argument—that no day in war, especially for those who lost their lives, is truly “average.” She recounts how these individuals, from all walks of life and different parts of the country, were ordinary people thrust into extraordinary circumstances. They ranged from cooks to clerks, riflemen to machinists, who all perished in ways as varied as their backgrounds: in hand-to-hand combat, drowning, burning, being shot down in aircraft, or perishing in ship sinkings.

One of the most notable tragedies of that day was the sinking of the Japanese “hellship” Arisan Maru, which was transporting American POWs. It accounted for two-thirds of the deaths, as hundreds of prisoners died when the ship was torpedoed by a U.S. submarine, unaware it was carrying Americans.

The narrative of No Average Day emphasizes the forgotten or overlooked moments of war—those skirmishes and lesser-known incidents in which many perished, whose names and stories often didn’t make headlines. Simmons underscores the human cost of these “small” deaths, which were part of the larger machinery of war but equally important in understanding its human toll.

The personal stories, like those of Paul Miller, who died in a Japanese POW camp, and Wanza Matthews, killed in a submarine attack, are framed against a chaotic global war, yet these soldiers’ final moments are intimately told, adding depth to their sacrifice. Simmons’ account, through thorough research and personal artifacts, seeks to give voice to the individuals behind the numbers, reflecting on how each death rippled through their families and communities.

Ultimately, Simmons argues that while October 24, 1944, might seem like just another day in the vast timeline of World War II, it was anything but average for the thousands who gave their lives. The title No Average Day captures this essence, illustrating how the personal costs of war transcend the statistics.

We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

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